Questions re Form N5B

#21
Thank you for your recent help. The N5B form was successfully issued to the county court and we received our copy of papers on Friday, with a letter to say it will be deemed to have been served to the tenant on Monday (14th). The question I have is actually now related to rent payments, as we have this month received rent via the lettings agent, which means the tenant has continued to pay his standing order, even though his AST expired on 2nd April. Is it usual for a tenant to continue to pay rent once the eviction process has started? If we continue to accept rent, does this in any way look as though we are giving him permission to continue to reside there? Also, our lettings agent lost their set of keys to the flat in November, and the tenant has repeatedly refused to lend them his set so they can get a new set cut. I need access to the property on Monday 28th as we have a surveyor coming to value the property, but of course we do not trust the tenant to stay at home to allow them access, hence I plan to meet them there and access the property with them. I have asked the lettings agency for a solution re keys. As I see it, either they need to find their keys (very unlikely) get keys off the tenant and get spare sets cut (also unlikely), or arrange for the locks to be changed so we all have a new set of keys (including the tenant). If the tenant continues to refuse access and we have to change the locks, could this be deemed as harassment in any way, even if we make sure he immediately has a set of the new keys?
hi serena

you have been through this process of completing the n5b form and n215 form it appears.

i wondered if you could be kind enough to please advice on my queries below based on your experiences.


i need help please with some queries below.

i have looked at the N5B general guidance on this website which is really helpful. however , im still unsure about the last page under the section of "certificate of service". do i complete this part certificate of service and post the N5b form along with the other forms (section 21/n215/tenenacy agreement) to the tenants or will the court do that ??

also i have a query about the N215 form. i asked my agent to serve the notice to leave my property to the tenants. the agent prepared the section 21 (4) (a) form and asked me to come into his office and sign it which i did. then the same day the agent called the tenants and in my presence verbally informed the tenants that they were given notice to vacate my property. then the agent, after i was asked to leave, gave the tenants the section 21 notice to read and sign (which the tenants did sign in my absence) and the next day the agent gave me a copy of the section 21 notice. do we really need to have an N215 form when the tenants have already signed the section 21 notice confirming they have received it ?? i guess that the agent will need to complete the N215 form but he has already avoided it once so i think the agent may not complete the N215 form. i am now planning to complete it and then will get him to sign the N215 form. regarding the part "how did you serve the documents?" shall i tick the option : "by personally handing it to or leaving it with " ??
does the agent need to write a time ?? under the option "by personally handing it to or leaving it with " there is a a space for the time where it says " (........ time left, where document is other than a claim form) (please specifiy)" . so does the agent need to write a time when he got the tenants to sign the section 21 notice?? but what if he did not make a note of the time?? what needs to be written in the white box below ?? does the box need to state the name of the tenants on whom the section 21 notice was served?

i would be extremely grateful if you could please offer any advice.

thank you

sally
 
#22
Hi Sally

Firstly the Court complete the Certificate of Service section on the form. The N215 is an extra piece of security to show that the Section 21 Notice was served - I would try and getting your Letting Agent to do this, I can not see any reason why they would not. However, as you have a copy of the signed S.21 notice by the tenants, this should be sufficient for the Court.

In completing the N215 - it is the section - personally handing, and yes the time needs to be put on the form, the reason for this is that anything served after 4.30 pm is deemed to be served the next business day - if the agent didn't keep a note of the time it will have to be left blank - it will only be an issue if the tenant disputes having been given 2 months notice and that it was served late. The name of the tenants will be inserted at the top of the document under Defendant and in the box "on whom did you serve ...." and again in the box regarding "personally handing" -need to put who he handed document to

I hope this helps
 

Jeffrey Shaw

Member
Staff member
#23
Whenever anyone mentions a s.21 Notice [Housing Act 1988], my first question is whether L protected T's deposit.
If it should have been protected but wasn't, L cannot use s.21 at all.
 
#24
Hi Sally

Firstly the Court complete the Certificate of Service section on the form. The N215 is an extra piece of security to show that the Section 21 Notice was served - I would try and getting your Letting Agent to do this, I can not see any reason why they would not. However, as you have a copy of the signed S.21 notice by the tenants, this should be sufficient for the Court.

In completing the N215 - it is the section - personally handing, and yes the time needs to be put on the form, the reason for this is that anything served after 4.30 pm is deemed to be served the next business day - if the agent didn't keep a note of the time it will have to be left blank - it will only be an issue if the tenant disputes having been given 2 months notice and that it was served late. The name of the tenants will be inserted at the top of the document under Defendant and in the box "on whom did you serve ...." and again in the box regarding "personally handing" -need to put who he handed document to

I hope this helps
Thank you so much for your reply . It's really helpful. I've been to the agent a few times now and the agent has persistently made excuses and not completed the N215 form so it is helpful to know that the tenants signature at the bottom of the notice should be adequate to confirm receipt of the section 21 notice. I still have not sent the n5b form off yet because the agent is not giving me the deposit protection certificate and insisting that I use the screen shot of the deposit protection details ( which is all that he has provided). Also the agent is not clarifying the date he gave the prescribed information to the tenants and is asking me to leave it blank. This is because its a bit complicated with the deposit issue. The tenants were (through this agent) residing in a different property and had already a protected deposit in a recognised scheme with the agent ( for the previous address the tenants were living in).when the tenants moved in my property at some point the agent transferred the deposit so that it was held under the same scheme (as I understand) but with the details of my property address. Now I don't know when this transfer took place and I don't know when the prescribed information was given as the agent is not forthcoming. Only the agent and tenants have access to the deposit protection scheme and not me. I believe when the agent gave the tenants the section 21 notice the deposit had not been transferred from the tenants' previous address to the address of my property. I think this because I recall the agent stating that he needed to transfer the deposit( he said this on the day when he served the notice to the tenants ). the agent has been elusive in disclosing when he gave the prescribed information. When I signed the AST contract the agent said that the deposit would be transferred and that it was under the name of a different property but I believe the agent only transferred the deposit after the section 21 notice was given.
So I have never received a deposit from the tenants. It was given to the agent and protected even before the tenants signed a contract with me for an AST. Assuming that the agent transferred the deposit in the name of my property after serving the section 21 notice am I right in thinking that the section 21 notice is valid regardless of when the prescribed information was given to the tenants ( because at the time of giving the notice there was no deposit under the name of my property)??
I would like to reiterate again that I never personally received a deposit from the tenants and the deposit was given to the agent before I had even met or signed the AST agreement with the tenant.
I'm a bit unsure now how to proceed with the accelerated possession without having the DPS certificate and the date of the prescribed information ( information that the agent has) and this issue about deposit.
I would be really grateful for your advice.

Thank you

Sally
 

Jeffrey Shaw

Member
Staff member
#25
Even though you never personally received the deposit:
a. you are L; so
b. you have a legal duty to protect it. But so does your Letting Agent (A).

Also: yes, a s.21 Notice served when no deposit was held can be valid even if a later protectable deposit is not protected.
 
#26
Even though you never personally received the deposit:
a. you are L; so
b. you have a legal duty to protect it. But so does your Letting Agent (A).

Also: yes, a s.21 Notice served when no deposit was held can be valid even if a later protectable deposit is not protected.
Hi
Thank you for your message.

In this scenario if the agent has only transferred the deposit under my property after the section 21 notice was given then how do I complete question 7 in the N5b form?
Do I tick yes or no for the question " was a money deposit received on or after 6/4/2007?
Do I still complete the part that asks for the deposit ID where it says "my reference number is .." ??
Do I still try to find out the date of the prescribed information and write it down in question 7?
Or should I tick "no" for question 7 (a) ( ie no deposit was received) and write a letter to the judge explaining the situation and that at the time of the section 21 notice the deposit was not received but transferred by the agent after the notice was given?

With regards to the responsibility for protecting deposit.
I understand that the landlord have a duty to protect the deposit . But in this situation the deposit was already in a deposit protection scheme and it was transferred by the agent from the previous address of tenant to the new address ( my property) .the deposit had never been given to me nor did I have access or control over the deposit held within the scheme either. only the agent and tenant have access to the deposit account in the dps scheme. would it still be my responsibility to protect a deposit when it was never given to me, was already in a deposit protection scheme and where I had no access to it or control over it?

Please write back

Thanks

Sally
 

Jeffrey Shaw

Member
Staff member
#27
It sounds too complex to be merely ticked or answered yes/no.
Yes, you did receive a deposit after 6 April 2007; but, no, you did not receive it before the s.21 Notice was served.
If you write an explanatory letter, don't say
at the time of the section 21 notice the deposit was not received but transferred by the agent after the notice was given
but just
at the time of the section 21 notice no deposit had been received but another property's deposit was transferred by the agent thereafter.
 
#28
It sounds too complex to be merely ticked or answered yes/no.
Yes, you did receive a deposit after 6 April 2007; but, no, you did not receive it before the s.21 Notice was served.
If you write an explanatory letter, don't say
at the time of the section 21 notice the deposit was not received but transferred by the agent after the notice was given
but just
at the time of the section 21 notice no deposit had been received but another property's deposit was transferred by the agent thereafter.
Thank you Jeffrey for your advice.
Rebecca , what would you advise? Please let me know.
Thanks
Sally