Tenants stuff – where do I stand?
Landlords will often be confronted at some stage of the tenancy with the issue of tenants ‘stuff’.
What I mean by tenants ‘stuff’ is in fact the tenants’ possessions that occupy your lovely, valuable, minimalist property.
There are several issues relating to tenants ‘stuff’.
Firstly, when it comes to carrying out a ‘check in’ it’s imperative that you note down in your inventory all your items of furniture and their details. I’m talking about fridges, freezers, lampshades, curtain poles. All the things that are not ‘bricks and mortar’.
This is because if there is a dispute ,you now have to prove to an arbitrator of the relevant Tenancy Deposit Scheme that your fixtures, fittings and furniture were indeed yours.(watch out next week for Tom Derret’s of ADR solutions article )
This means that if you let the property with a fridge freezer. You will have to prove that it was your lovely new Bosch freezer not some ‘crappy’ bit of junk that has suddenly appeared in its place at the end of the tenancy. This means I’m afraid labouriously noting down the exact model and make of all your appliances if you are going to avoid having your things swapped for some of the tenant’s stuff.
Tenants waste – just as much of a problem.
Paradoxically, it’s not just a case of tenants running off with your things; but actually frequently it’s the things that they leave behind that can be just as much of a problem for landlords.
Now, having a valuable painting left in the attic would be a lovely surprise. However, that very rarely happens. A much more likely scenario is that the tenant will leave you with a whole load of ‘crap’.
What landlords need to ensure is that before they agree the check out with the tenant that they have thoroughly inspected the loft ( a favourite hiding place of tenants) and off course the cellar and garage.
All these places along with kitchen cupboards are places where cunning tenants like to stash their old unwanted bric a brac, porn magazines and quite probably their collection of rotting retro-trainers.
In many ways having items left doesn’t seems so morally reprehensible as stealing ‘stuff’, but it can be equally annoying and frustrating for landlordsIf as it will probably involve loading up the car and a trip to the tip It’s a waste of a landlords time and energy and pretty damn annoying. Why should you do it rather than the tenant? After all, it is their ‘stuff’ not yours.
Responsibility not always clear cut
I’ve recently had a case where the tenants left. They did clear out the flat but left most of their rubbish piled in bin liners next to an over filled wheelie bin. Then, the local scavengers decided to pick through the bags to see if there was anything they could salvage! Is this what ‘Browns Britain’ has come to I thought.
The result. A whole load of mixed rubbish left stroon across the parking court. The tenants of course were long gone.
So who’s responsibility is it?
Arguably the tenants should have taken that quantity of rubbish to the tip. Clearly, a wheelie bin is only designed to take a week or two of domestic waste and not to house a lifetimes junk. Whilst the tenant hasn’t done anything wrong technically. Why should the landlord spend a morning bagging up the rubbish again and taking it to the tip?
As it happens I used my initiative and phoned up the local council, Nottingham City. They were very accommodating and I arranged a ‘special collection’ at no charge. They will pick up the extra rubbish, provided it is bagged up.
In this situation I used a little bit of good will I have built up with my new tenant at the start of the tenancy. I’ve asked for him to bag the rubbish for me as I’m away on holiday in France prior to the collection.
This incident however does raise the important question of who is responsible for the tenants ‘stuff’. Could I have charged the tenant for a commercial operation to clean up the rubbish and take it away? Would this be a legitimate deduction from their deposit and would it hold up if the matter was disputed by the tenant by an appointed arbitrator. Has anybody had experience of this? If so please post your comments below.
Landlords rights over tenants possessions
My final point on tenants ‘stuff’ relates to the rights of landlords over tenants’ property. More specifically can a landlord keep a tenants’ possessions in lieu of payment?
Many landlords assume that if a tenant stops paying rent or owes them money; that they can do a ‘quid pro quo’ , using the tenants’ possessions as recompense. It all makes sense in terms of the law of natural justice.
However, this assumption ignores the law of Tort (Intereference Goods) Act 1977. This law specifically prevents a landlord from taking or withholding a tenants stuff in lieu of payment. Before 1977 there was a law called ‘Detinue’. However, this was specifically abolished by the above Act.
If a landlord does get tempted to withhold or take a tenants stuff then they could be in for a big fine. In the recent case of Cashmere v. Walsh, Downing and Veale the tenant was awarded £6,515 for the landlord failing to return the tenants possessions.
The correct way for a landlord to claim for owed money is to recover it through possession proceedings or a money judgment.
A landlord who may have a tenant who appears to have ‘done a runner’ but has still left some of their possessions may be judged by the law to be still in possession of the property. A landlord should always take the appropriate proceeding even where it looks like ‘abandonment’ may have occurred.
It just shows that a tenant’s ‘stuff’ can play a bigger part in a tenancy than you might first think.
Any comments on the issues raised please post them here.
Hi Property Hawk,
Just to add some anecdotal info:
I recently had a tenant do a runner on me to avoid eviction through unpaid rent, denying access, and widespread damage to the fixtures and fittings.
When he was gone, he left a LOT of junk, including a steel-framed articulated double-bed, a sofa (no cushions), a wardrobe, a chest, a steel cabinet, a dozen bike frames, 21 bike wheels, 14 front forks sets, and about 4cwt of gears and levers, and of-course the obligatory 3 mattresses.
When I checked what my legal rights were, I was told I can’t just skip-it, as it’s not mine. And even though I knew where he now lived (across the road if you can believe that!), I couldn’t dump it there either, as the landlord of THAT property could do me for dumping.
I had to give him official notice; a ‘reasonable period’ in which to remove it, knowing full-well he would do no such thing. Meanwhile my house was sitting junk-filled and un-let.
In the end it took two flatbed van-loads to the tip to get rid, and in respect of the cost of me removing the gear, I CAN indeed claim the legitimate removal costs, but this will just get added to the arrears and the bill for repairs of damages, which I’ll end up chasing him through the courts for.
Hey-ho.
Regards Andy
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I’m the new tenant and the previous tenant left a fridge freezer and the landlord put it in the front garden. He said it’s not his responsibility to remove it and expects us to pay the council to have it removed. Surely it’s the landlords responsibility to remove it as it does not belong to me?
Does the council not collect it for free? What about the local scrap merchants? Go online check out some options but in essence you are probably correct it is down to the landlord.
I separated from my partner and moved out of the property we rented from her father in Oct 2017. I built a pre fab garage at the rear of the property which it was verbally agreed when I left, I could use until such time as the property was sold. I paid for construction, planning permission and all matters relating to the garage. On March 5 I got a letter signed both by my ex and her father requesting that I ‘remove my belongings from the garage’ by the end of the month. There was no mention of garage structure itself. My ex asked if I would be removing the garage and I replied I would like to but not sure if I would have time. She said she would be having it demolished. I removed most of my property by 23 March (17 days) when CV19 lockdown began in Scotland. I returned recently to remove the last of my property and the garage itself now that lockdown has eased and found the garage had been broken into and left open and that my ex was storing a caravan inside. She now claims that I have no right to remove the garage.
How do I go about recovering my property? I have some but not all of the receipts. Planning permission is in my name with ex’s father named as landlord. Am I correct in assuming the dispute is between myself and her father as the landlord? Surely my ex has no rights to the garage? Do I have any right of access to recover the garage?
Interesting one, one for small claim courts or citizen advice bureau. You could also try posting it in the landlord forum for a legal view.
Yes that was kind of along the lines I was thinking. Might try LL forum. Spoke to CAB who weren’t sure but advised against removing it.
Thanks.
I have an odd question. I left my sofa-bed (as a tenant) in a flat and was meant to collect it but haven’t been able to as I was outside the country when I moved out. Anyways – now the landlord has re-rented the flat – do I still have the legal right to take my couch back? If yes- is there anything that supports my case?
It’s your couch still so you will just need to arrange access.
Hi
I have recently left a tenancy where the mattress provided by the landlord has some damage. I agreed to replace this but im being charged for the disposal despite it not being my mattress, and i am no longer a tenant.
Do I have to pay this charge or is there another way around this? Thanks in advance 🙂
I think you have accepted that you have damaged the mattress and have agreed to replace it. I’m guessing that means you have also accepted the responsibilty for disposing of the old one. If the landlord has taken a deposit then you might want to look at the tenancy deposits the arbitrators view.
Hi! me and my family of three were served a ‘notice to vacate in ONE MONTH’ just before lockdown in March. THEN LOCKDOWN HAPPENS. So, I tell the landlord I’ll move out as soon as I find a suitable home for my family to which her reply was “That’s fine but there’ll be a rent increase of £60 until you move out”. I reluctantly agreed. I tried to ask her for an extension with the original rent to have more time to look but she didn’t agree. Miraculously, one ideal home popped up and we actually bought it, however, the process with the mortgage and all took so long that we just moved out a week ago.
We cleaned up the whole house squeaky-clean as we didn’t want to risk losing our deposit. The only thing remaining was a two-seater couch that we didn’t need so I tried to get the council to collect it for £5. However, they didn’t show up on the day and the next available date was after one month so I left it there. When I went to give the landlord the keys, she came to inspect the house and after handed me my full deposit and said “take your couches away”. I told her only one is ours and the other had already been there and explained why I could not have it removed but I’ll try to find a friend with a van who’ll be happy to take both couches away. She didn’t say much and later on in the night texted me “take your couches ASAP”.
Three days later, my daughter goes to the same street to say goodbye to a friend. When she was returning to her car, the mother of the landlord walked up to her and aggressively started to yell that we left the house broken and dirty. My daughter is 19, and was very upset as she avoids confrontation and there were a lot of people outside. The landlord’s mother also shouted at one point in her own language and then said “take your couches away right now”. My daughter was very upset and came home in tears. I want to go there and take this up with them but I’m thinking the best option is to break all contact with the landlord and never to go in that street again. She can sort out the couches on her own. I was even ready to take both couches away for her but after how my daughter was treated and the petty nags we’ve had to endure throughout our tenancy, I thought about letting them deal with it. Is this the best way to go about this?
Hi, i have bought some furnitures from the previuos tenant to were I was supposed to be move in.
The landlord then decided not to rent the property to me anymore for reasons that i believe can be associated to discrimination. So now all the furnitures are still in the flat and the landolrd is asking me to remove them asap.
Everything is recorded on email on how I have communicated all my steps to the estate agents.
There is an inventory of all my belongings and the proprietor. The landlord is also stating that some of the items ive bought are hers.
Do you habe any idea what are my rights?
Have a look at the Landlords Bible post about the Check Out.
We left polystyrene in the shed which we thought they could get rid of themselves, does that give the landlord right to keep our bond? I don’t think it does but maybe you guys could help.
If a tenant is evicted from a property and leaves possessions there after 21 days can the landlord try and sell or dispose of those items if sufficient notice has been given? The property needs to be relet to huge debts incurred.
Our tenant has vacated the rental at the end of the tenancy and before our managing agent has had time to go in and do their inventory, the tenant has left every room, almost floor to ceiling full of rubbish. What can we do. The bond will not cover the costs. They have also damaged the bath.